In light of the below scriptures, how can I be assured that my "Salvation" cannot be lost?

Question:
How can the below scriptures be reconciled with other scriptures that infer salvation is eternal ? To me, the below scriptures sound explicit in stating salvation can be lost. However, the scriptures that indicate salvation is eternal do not sound as explicit to me and are only inferential, in my opinion. Is it possible that salvation is eternal only after we die in our earthly body and pass into our spirit body with a qualifying condition being that we have not previously lost our salvation while in our earthly body? The more I read scripture on this, the more confused I get.

Thankyou for your time.

Matthew 5:13
13 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Mark 9:50
"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."

Luke 14:34
"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again?

Hebrews 6:4
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think those deserve to be punished who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, who have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who have insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:32
32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For, "In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay." 38 And, "But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back." 39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

Revelation 20:11
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and everyone was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire.

2 RESPONSES: First is the Calvinist position as submitted by Pastor Dana Smith, second is the Arminian position as submitted by Ed Bolton. Thanks to both of you for your time and scholarship in providing your answers.

Calvinist Position:
First off, let me say that this is one of the most important questions someone could ask, because it shows that we are genuinely concerned about salvation. No one I know, Arminian (those who believe they can lose their salvation) or Calvinist (those who believe in eternal security) alike, is interested in taking salvation for granted. Scripture certainly isn’t interested in such spiritual laxity either. So, what say the Scriptures? Does the Bible support the Arminian or Calvinist view?
Before we address this issue any further, I feel the need to diffuse the emotion inevitably wrapped up in any answer by reminding us that the goal in addressing this topic is not to win an argument, but to wrestle with God’s revealed Word to us, a Word which can easily be taken out of context (on either side of the issue) if we are not careful. So, I have found it helpful to frame this discussion when I address it. As I lay out the case for eternal security (yes, I am a Calvinist), I’ll do so using the following four-tiered approach: 1) A Defense of the Doctrine of Eternal Security; 2) An Understanding of the Verbal and Plenary Inspiration of Scripture; 3) An Address of Certain Scriptural Passages; and 4) A Reminder of the Pastoral Nature of the Doctrine of Eternal Security. What follows is a bit lengthy, but we are dealing with more than one doctrine here.
A Definition of the Doctrine of Eternal Security
Calvinists, or Reformed Christians, often refer to this doctrine as the Perseverance of the Saints, or, more accurately renamed, the Preservation of the Saints. However one refers to it, as Wayne Grudem (Systematic Theology) states, the belief is that God will preserve, or cause to persevere, all of those whom He has effectually called to Himself from now throughout eternity, and that only those who persevere are truly born again. Note that this definition has two parts. On the one hand, there is assurance of salvation for the believer in knowing and trusting that God’s power is responsible for bringing us to salvation and keeping us safe in our salvation. On the other hand, there is evidence that we are truly born again, and that evidence is our continuation in the Christian life. In other words, we should not give false assurance to people who were never believers in the first place (Grudem, p. 788).
On Sin and Salvation
It is imperative in any study of Scripture that we treat doctrines, not as individual, unrelated treasures, but as pearls on a necklace. In other words, no doctrine stands alone; it must be derived from Scripture alone and it must interface with other Scriptural doctrines. This criteria certainly applies to the doctrine of Eternal Security, so let us briefly look at accompanying doctrines, namely Sin and Salvation.
When I gave my first evangelistic talk as an undergraduate student serving with my college Christian fellowship, with good intentions I used a theologically-incorrect metaphor, though I did not know it at the time. I told my peers that apart from Jesus we are drowning in the sea of sin, and that if we would but cry out and lift our hands towards the life boat, Jesus would throw us a life preserver so we could grab on. God would do His part, and I would do mine. Joint-effort in salvation. I blush even now as I write this.
What I would say now would not make me popular on the televangelist circuit. I would say that we are not drowning in the sea of sin. We are not even unconscious, bobbing in the water, lost in the waves. Instead, we are dead—born dead in fact (cf. Eph. 2:1-2)—lying at the bottom of the ocean. Thus, we do not need a life preserver, and we certainly could not grab onto one if it were thrown our way. Dead people don’t grab things. Rather, the Holy Spirit picks us up in a sheer act of grace, breathes new life into us, gives us faith to believe (at which point I would still call people to accept Christ), and eternally secures us on His boat, even though the waves may look ominously large along the way.
The point is, we are by nature those who are born dead in our sin. Yet, we are created in God’s image, and thus we have the capacity to choose or reject God. When Adam and Eve fell into sin, the capacity to choose or to will was not lost. What we lost were our moral capabilities, i.e. the capacity to choose the right thing, in this case, God. So, we are free to choose, but we are only able to choose according to our nature, which is corrupt and caved in upon itself. So, no human chooses God; we only choose self. Martin Luther referred to this as “the bondage of the will.” God is the One who chooses certain people to be saved, those whom Scripture calls “the elect” (cf. Rom. 8:33). That brings us to the topic of salvation.
Romans 3:21-26 is a key passage in the overall flow of Scripture. From Rom. 1:18-3:20, Paul outlines how fallen and corrupt humans are, culminating in his sobering conclusion: “There is none who is righteous, no not one…” (3:10). Romans 3:21 then begins with two beautiful words: “But now.” In other words, though we are totally depraved, caved in upon ourselves, now we have a salvation which is predicated upon grace. Theologians throughout the ages have talked about the imputed righteousness of Christ, a key term that must be grasped to understand what exactly has been done for us in Christ. In a nutshell, when we believe in Jesus, our sin is imputed, or given over, to Christ’s account, while His righteousness is imputed, or given over, to our account. We are declared “not guilty” (i.e. we are justified) in the eyes of the heavenly court, not because we are dressed in our merit, but because we are dressed only in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are declared to be saints, holy ones, because of what Christ has done for us. However, this side of heaven, we are also still sinners. Consequently, we are both saint and sinner.
My point in going through all of this is, again, to remind us that doctrines are pearls on a necklace. We only understand them rightly when they are seen along with others. So, in summary, we are sinners, dead in our sins, who freely choose that which is according to our nature: sin. God, acting in mercy and with great grace and love, in His sovereignty elects some to salvation, giving them the faith to appropriate that which Christ accomplished for them on the cross. Given these pearls, I would like to give a few texts that utterly convince me of the security of our salvation. Before I do so, one more doctrine needs to be addressed.
An Understanding of the Verbal and Plenary Inspiration of Scripture
Bible-believing Christians have long held to the verbal and plenary inspiration of Scripture, drawing their convictions from several places in Scripture, yet none as important as 2 Tim. 3:16. In that passage, we encounter the word “inspiration,” which in the original Greek literally means “God-breathed.” All of Scripture is breathed out from God. This is true in a plenary sense (the entire message of Scripture), but it also true in a verbal sense. In other words, every word, including the form of the word, was deliberately chosen by the Holy Spirit to convey a specific message. Ask any grammarian and she will tell you that a preposition, or a verb tense, can change the meaning of a phrase or sentence. This is especially true of Scripture. As we turn our attention to specific Scriptural passages pertaining to eternal security, I will at times examine key terms and grammar within the texts. I trust that in so doing, we will see why so many Christians throughout history believe that the doctrine of eternal security is, in fact, explicit, while the Arminian position is inferential.
An Address of Certain Scriptural Passages
John 6:37-40: “37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Notice that certain people have been given to Christ, and that these same people will come to Christ (v. 37). He then highlights the fact that all who come (i.e. are saved; v. 40) will be kept by Him (v. 39). How long will they be kept? Until they lose their faith? No, until He raises them up at the last day (v. 39).

John 10:27-30: “27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

Here we have the promise of eternal life. The very notion of eternality implies that such life does not begin when we die, but at the moment our faith is placed in the Savior. We do not have temporary (i.e. we could lose it) life this side of heaven, only to get it eternally on the other side. Instead, we have eternal life now, because the Kingdom of God has already broken into this worldly order.

This is a guarantee; Christ is not talking hypothetically. He is not saying, “If they remain faithful, they shall never perish.” Instead, He is saying that believers shall never perish. The Greek grammar is emphatic here. A literal reading would be, “And they shall certainly not perish forever.” Why? Because no one is able to snatch them out of His hand. That “no one” includes us. I cannot snatch myself out of His hand. I’ll tell you, if my abiding in Christ was contingent on my faithfulness, I would have been out on my ear about 15 seconds after I accepted Christ, if not sooner. That’s how pervasive sin is. So, we are assured of our salvation because we are in His hand, not to mention the Father’s hand.

I will let the late pastor/author James Montgomery Boice (Foundations of the Christian Faith) take it from here:
We can imagine ourselves to be a coin folded in his fingers. That is a secure position for any object but especially for us, considering whose hand holds us. But Jesus adds that the hand of God is over his hand. We are enclosed in two hands. We are doubly secure. If we feel insecure, we can remember that even when we are held in that manner, the Father and Son still have two hands free to defend us” (p. 524).

Even my sin cannot escape that secure position.

As an aside, I should also mention that the true believer in Christ will not want to jump out of His hand. We will not want to abandon our salvation, because we know it intimately. This is not to say that we will not sin, because we will (see Sin section above). God does not hold us down as we are trying to scramble out of His hand of mercy. Instead, as a result of regeneration (yet another “pearl” I did not even address), I have been given a new desire by the Holy Spirit, a desire for holiness, mercy, and forgiveness. The true believer is going nowhere, despite sins we may still commit in our struggle with our sinful nature.

Romans 8:33-39: 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sin’s charges (even our own) cannot separate us from Christ, because we have been justified (v. 33). Again, James Boice writes, “Christians have been acquitted before the bench of the highest court of all, and no one [including us] is authorized to reopen their case” (p. 524). The clincher than comes in vv. 38-39. Nothing, nothing is able [again, the grammar is definitive] to separate us from Christ. What about me? Can I separate myself from Him? The text is clear: “Nor anything else in all creation.” Now, I can hear the critic say, “Yeah, but what about if a believer denies the very faith he used to profess? What if he turns his back on Jesus, curses him, and walks away?” A genuine believer would never do this. Such a rejection would show they never believed in the first place, as we will see in the Hebrews 6 text addressed below.

Philippians 1:6: “And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” The Greek literally reads that God will “keep on perfecting his work until the day of Christ.” Note Who began the good work of salvation, and then note the certainty that God will bring our salvation to completion. Should one wish to assert that this is all contingent upon our desire to remain faithful to Him, the burden of proof would be upon him or her, because the grammar and context are clear.

1 Peter 1:5: Peter’s readers are those “who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” The word “shielded” can mean “kept from escaping,” as well as “guarded against attack.” Most likely, both meanings are present here. We cannot escape, and we cannot be harmed.

The list could go on and on with the following passages: Rom. 8:29 and the foreknowledge (a Greek word meaning fore-appoint) and predestination of God; Rom. 8:30 and the promise of glorification (note the tense: we have already been glorified, meaning that the end-glorification-is such a surety that it is already seen as being complete!); Eph. 1:13-14 and the sealing and guarantee of the Holy Spirit, a sealing I cannot break); and 1 Cor. 6:20, where we are told that we were bought with a price. The grammar in each of these passages does not speak of an implied “if we remain faithful.” They are indicative statements, letting us know how things truly are from God’s perspective. He did not simply purchase the possibility of my salvation on the cross; He purchased the reality of it. No one is able to cancel His purchase, not even me. That leads us to the passages that seem to teach otherwise.

Matthew 5:13 (cf. Mk. 9:50; Lk. 14:34): You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This passage, at first glance, seems to say that Christians can lose their salvation. At the time of Christ, salt was not salt as we know it to be. It was a mixture of salt and other earthly elements. As such, if it were to get too wet, it could “lose its saltiness.” That is, the elements could separate, thus making it useless. Of course, we know that true salt, 100% pure salt, cannot cease being salt. So, if salt refers to salvation, then true Christians cannot cease being so. That said, I do not believe that salt refers to salvation here. Jesus is just beginning His sermon on the mount, and He lays out what the character of His disciples should be in the beatitudes. After this statement, He immediately talks about a city on a hill, and a lamp on a lamp stand, which most commentators agree refers to the missionary nature of the Church. Christians are to be a light to the nations, but if they cease to reach out, they do not cease to be Christians. They are being disobedient, perhaps even showing they were never Christians in the first place. The same goes for salt. If Christians do not permeate this world for the sake of the Kingdom, seasoning and preserving it for Jesus’ sake, they are being disobedient, perhaps even showing they never were Christians.
Hebrews 6:4-6: 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

This is a difficult passage, but one that resonates with, I would guess, every church even today. Again, it looks fairly cut and dry: If you have once been saved and fall away, you cannot be saved again. To the context we go. I will borrow heavily from Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology (pp. 796-802) for this one.
He suggests that we should go further and read vv. 7-8, where we see that judgment falls upon those who bear no vegetation or useful fruit. Throughout Scripture, good fruit is always the sign of a believer, whereas bad fruit is always the sign of an unbeliever. Already, we have a strong inkling regarding the types of people the author of Hebrews is writing about: nonbelievers (Grudem, p.796). Let’s look at the original language.
The word for enlightened (v. 4) does not refer to salvation, but to a cognitive understanding of the truths of the Gospel. The word for once (v. 4) means that something can happen once, yet it can be repeated several times. So, these people were not saved (a different word would have been used otherwise), but they came to understand truths with their minds through repeated exposure (Grudem, pp. 796-797).
Next we have two uses of the word tasted (vv. 4-5). As Grudem states, “Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that tasting is temporary and one might or might not decide to accept the thing that is tasted” (p. 797). Jesus did this on the cross when He tasted (same Greek word) the wine mixed with gall. After He tasted it, He decided against drinking further. Then we come across the word shared, a word that can mean close attachment or loose association, two different meanings to be sure (Grudem, p. 797).
Finally, we see that certain people cannot be restored again to repentance. Surely this shows that they had repented, but cannot do so again. Indeed it does. However, repent does not always mean to be saved. The word literally means to change one’s mind, and it is used in a variety of contexts, both biblical and otherwise. Just two chapters later in Heb. 12:7, we see that Esau changed his mind (same Greek word) regarding the sale of his birthright. There is no biblical indication that this was a repentance leading to an inward heart change, but simply a change of mind. Note also that Judas “repented” (though it is a different Greek word, the concept is the same) after handing Jesus over to the authorities, but we know that this was not a salvific repentance (Grudem, p. 798).
What the author is describing is a person who has been exposed to true preaching (finding it attractive), who has had some sorrow for sin (but who has not asked Christ for forgiveness, submitting their lives to His Lordship), who is closely affiliated with the church (sharing in the Holy Spirit), who clearly understands the Gospel (they are enlightened), and who appreciates the attractiveness of the Christian life. As Grudem states, “In spite of all this, they ‘commit apostasy’ and ‘crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt’” (p. 799). Their hearts are hardened, and we do not know what else we could do for them besides pray. As I said, these people exist in every church, and the author of Hebrews is gravely concerned for them.
Hebrews 10:26-31: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Given everything written above, I encourage you to re-read this passage, trusting you will see the same warning present: If we turn our back on Jesus (i.e. fail to come to Him in saving faith) after knowing so much about Him with our minds, then there is nothing else left for us, and we will have to face His just wrath.

Hebrews 10:32-39: 32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For in just a very little while,

"He who is coming will come and will not delay.

38 But my righteous one will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him."

39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

The same principle is at work here, but with one addition. The calls to persevere and to hold onto one’s confidence are written to distinguish between a genuine believer and a false one. A genuine Christ-follower will persevere, whereas a false one will not.
Revelation 20:11-15: 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Given all that has been written thus far, I would conclude that the elect’s names (i.e. all genuine believers) are written in the book of life. I would also add this caveat: The doctrine of eternal security should never give us the freedom to willfully sin and love it. We are always called to live a lifestyle that shows that we are saved. Just because we are in the book of life (assuming we are believers and not simply church goers) does not mean we can live as if we are not.
A Reminder of the Pastoral Nature of the Doctrine of Eternal Security
This doctrine has brought me great freedom. For several years after I became a Christian, I held to the Arminian view, but it brought me little peace. I lived in fear of God, wondering if I was ever in His good graces. Not only do I believe the Holy Spirit corrected my theology, He subsequently corrected my view of God. As a believer, though I may do things that get in the way of my relationship with God, clogging the pipes of communication with my sin, nevertheless I am always in His good graces because I am eternally justified and clothed in Christ’s righteousness.
I am happy when believers ask if they are truly saved, because it shows they are serious about their salvation, and yet they realize how seriously sinful they are. At least that’s the case with me. It gives me great pleasure to end with a list of questions, again borrowed from Wayne Grudem (pp. 803-806), pertaining to how we can be assured of our salvation…eternally:
· Do I have a present trust in Christ for salvation?
· Is there evidence of a regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in my heart?
· Do I see a long-term pattern of growth in my Christian life?
There are other questions that could be asked, but these are good ones. Remember Who saved you and how you are saved. The only unforgivable sin, according to Scripture, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most commentators agree that this means rejecting Christ. If one rejects Christ, he has not lost his salvation; he was never saved to begin with.
That leads to something near to all of us. We all know people, perhaps even people in our own family or social circle, who professed faith in Christ, participated in the ministry of the church, sat in Bible studies with us, sang praises on Sunday mornings, and gave their testimony, only to walk away and live a lifestyle in word and deed that, in a word, is ungodly. The current statistics show that roughly 75% of teens raised in Bible-believing churches walk out of the door at church on their way to college without walking into the door of any church for several years, if ever. What of these people?
I would encourage a spirit of love and warning in this case, all bathed in prayer for repentance. We must continue to love them as Christ loved us, calling them back to Jesus, their first Love, and our love must be relentless. At the same time, we must also warn them that they may be like those we see in Hebrews 6, especially if we see no evidence of fruit, and our warning must be relentless. Love and warning; warning and love. All the while, we pray that the Spirit would open their eyes to the Majesty and mercy of the Savior, even as our hearts break at their current choices.
Finally, I think it is important to note that there are biblically-minded Arminians and Calvinists, brothers and sisters in Christ, who sincerely disagree with each other over the issue at hand. Despite disagreements, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. Our salvation is contingent upon our belief in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, not upon our acceptance or rejection of the Calvinist (or Arminian) position. So, let us turn to Scripture and Scripture alone, and may God be glorified as we rejoice in such a great salvation as that which we have in Christ.

Dana Smith

Arminian Position:
Well I guess it was just a matter of time before this question was asked. And why not? The question has been asked and debated for centuries and will be asked and debated for centuries more should our Lord tarry.

Let me start by stating that many Christians have gotten into very heated arguments regarding the issues of election, eternal security, perseverance, etc. to the extent that in years gone by those taking certain positions along either line have been labeled heretics. To this day, I fear that many Christians have engaged in discussions surrounding this question wherein at a minimum feelings were hurt and at a maximum churches split.

I fear that the Lord’s emotion when observing these results may be similar to his emotion as he approached Jerusalem, the “faithful city” and looked upon it and wept. We need to be engaging and tolerant as we listen and reflect upon the perspectives of fellow believers. I am thoroughly convinced that those on both sides of the question who have gone on before us and those who carry on now are earnest and sincere in their convictions.
We must be prudent and follow the Lord’s instruction in His word when we engage one another on differences of interpretation of Scripture and its application. And God’s Word is clear:

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. Matt 12:25

14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. Rom 14:1

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. 14 Do everything without complaining or arguing, Phil 2:12-15

5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Matt 18:5-6

Depending upon where we are in our relationship with the Lord and with His body (the Church) it may not be healthy to engage in these “vain disputations” if no good can come of it. On the other hand, in working out our salvation, if an issue arises that really challenges our faith and we have sought the Lord in prayer and studied his Word and still struggle with resolution, it is imperative that we seek out our brothers and sisters in Christ to gain some insight. We are all members of one body, strengthening, teaching and encouraging one another. Knowing Mike as I do, I know that he wants to go deeper and deeper into God’s truth and I commend him for seeking clarification on the question of “losing one’s salvation” such that he can continue on his journey of faith and continue to work out his salvation. I pray that any exchanges on “The Blog” will be edifying and winsome to all and pleasing in the Lord’s sight.

A final introductory comment. Typically in positions surrounding issues like this there are those who gravitate to the extreme on either side. In so doing, there is a tendency to become legalistic or libertarian and the expressions therein become exclusive, dogmatic and pedagogical. Ultimately, no mortal man has the ultimate answers. The Scriptures have been completed and no one dare add a single letter to any of them. However, as we all know, there are those who are more learned than others in exegetical and hermeneutical study and we need to give them their due in this regard. On the other hand, there is no substitute for those who may not have the Master and Doctorate degrees of Divinity, but who spend hours reading the Scriptures each week and lay themselves at the feet of the Master praying for wisdom and understanding through the power of the Holy Spirit. Certainly we need to give them their due as well. Bottom line? As you review the positions for and against “losing one’s salvation” (for discussion’s sake Arminians and Calvinists) understand that both camps want the truth for the glory of God and ultimately when all is said and done and the roll is called up yonder and the Lord confirms one as true and the other in error, or both in error or portions of both as true, we will all exclaim “Thank you and Praise you Lord because You are the Truth!”

For discussion’s sake, I think it important to give a broad outline of the “Arminian” position with regard to the essential elements of the theology of “losing one’s salvation” versus “eternal security”, understanding that any discussion of the question posed must take into account the other related questions of “election”, “perseverance of the saints”, etc.

Once the Arminian position is described (simply quoting Wikipedia’s encyclopedic description) it will then be incumbent upon the writer (to the best of his very finite ability) to share and interpret, with the significant help of more learned ones than he, the Scriptures that led him to the Arminian position and, where necessary, to give another perspective to some of the Scriptures that Calvinists rest their theological hats on.

Arminianism holds to the following tenets:
Humans are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation.
Salvation is possible only by God's grace which cannot be merited.
No works of human effort can cause or contribute to salvation.
God's election is conditional on faith in the sacrifice and Lordship of Jesus Christ.
Christ's atonement was made on behalf of all people.
God allows his grace to be resisted by those who freely reject Christ.
Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional on continued faith.
Within the broad scope of Church history, Arminianism is closely related to Calvinism (or Reformed theology), and the two systems share both history and many doctrines in common. Nonetheless, they are often viewed as rivals within Evangelicalism because of their disagreement over the doctrines of predestination and salvation.
History
The Calvinist/Arminian debate
Jacobus Arminius was a Dutch pastor and theologian in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. He was taught by Theodore Beza, Calvin’s hand-picked successor, but he rejected his teacher's theology that it is God who unconditionally elects some for salvation. Instead Arminius proposed that the election of God was of believers, thereby making it conditional on faith. Arminius's views were challenged by the Dutch Calvinists, especially Franciscus Gomarus but Arminius died before a national synod could occur.
Arminius' followers, not wanting to adopt their leader's name, called themselves the Remonstrants. When Arminius died before he could satisfy Holland's State General's request for a 14-page paper outlining his views, the Remonstrants replied in his stead crafting the Five articles of Remonstrance. After some political maneuvering, the Dutch Calvinists were able to convince Prince Maurice of Nassau to deal with the situation. Maurice systematically removed Arminian magistrates from office and called a national synod at Dordrecht. This Synod of Dort was open primarily to Dutch Calvinists (Arminians were excluded) with Calvinist representatives from other countries, and in 1618 published a condemnation of Arminius and his followers as heretics. Part of this publication was the famous Five points of Calvinism in response to the five articles of Remonstrance. The Remonstrants were inconsistent with the soteriological thought of Arminius. Most, like Hugo Grotius and Philip von Limborch, moved in the direction of semi-Pelagianism at best or Socinianism or rationalism at worst. This is demonstrated in John Mark Hicks's dissertation comparing Arminius's soteriology with that of Limborch.
Arminians across Holland were removed from office, imprisoned, banished, and sworn to silence. Twelve years later Holland officially granted Arminianism protection as a religion, although animosity between Arminians and Calvinists continued.
The debate between Calvin's followers and Arminius's followers is distinctive of post-Reformation church history. The emerging Baptist movement in seventeenth-century England, for example, was a microcosm of the historic debate between Calvinists and Arminians. The first Baptists--called "General Baptists" because of their confession of a "general" or unlimited atonement, were Arminians. The Baptist movement originated with Thomas Helwys, who left his mentor John Smyth, who had moved into semi-Pelgianism and other distinctives of the Dutch Waterlander Mennonites of Amsterdam, and returned to London to start the first English Baptist Church in 1611. Later General Baptists such as John Griffith, Samuel Loveday, and Thomas Grantham defended a Reformed Arminian theology that reflected more the Arminianism of Arminius than that of the later Remonstrants or the English Arminianism of Arminian Puritans like John Goodwin or Anglican Arminians such as Jeremy Taylor and Henry Hammond. The General Baptists encapsulated their Arminian views in numerous confessions, the most influential of which was the Standard Confession of 1660. In the 1640s the Particular Baptists were formed, diverging strongly from Arminian doctrine and embracing the strong Calvinism of the Presbyterians and Independents. Their robust Calvinism was publicized in such confessions as the London Baptist Confession of 1644 and the Second London Confession of 1689. Interestingly, the London Confession of 1689 was later used by Calvinistic Baptists in America (called the Philadelphia Baptist Confession), whereas the Standard Confession of 1660 was used by the American heirs of the English General Baptists, who soon came to be known as Free Will Baptists.
This same dynamic between Arminianism and Calvinism can be seen in the heated discussions between friends and fellow Methodist ministers John Wesley and George Whitefield. Wesley was a champion of Arminian teachings, defending his soteriology in a periodical titled The Arminian and writing articles such as Predestination Calmly Considered. He defended Arminianism against charges of semi-Pelagianism holding strongly to beliefs in original sin and total depravity. At the same time, Wesley attacked the determinism that he claimed characterized unconditional election and maintained a belief in the ability to lose one’s salvation. Wesley also clarified the doctrine of prevenient grace and preached the ability of Christians to attain to perfection. While Wesley freely made use of the term "Arminian," he did not self-consciously root his soteriology in the theology of Arminius but was highly influenced by seventeenth-century English Arminianism and thinkers such as John Goodwin, Jeremy Taylor and Henry Hammond of the Anglican "Holy Living" school, and the Remonstrant Hugo Grotius.
Current landscape
Advocates of both Arminianism and Calvinism find a home in many Protestant denominations, and sometimes both exist within the same denomination as with the Anglican Communion. Faiths leaning at least in part in the Arminian direction include Methodists, Free Will Baptists, General Baptists, Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Seventh Day Adventists, Menonites, Pentecostals and Charismatics. Denominations leaning in the Calvinist direction are grouped as the Reformed Churches and include Particular Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists, The majority of Southern Baptists, including Billy Graham, accept Arminianism with an exception allowing for a doctrine of eternal security. Many see Calvinism as growing in acceptance, and some well-known Southern Baptists such as Albert Moehler and Mark Dever have been trying to lead the Souther Baptist Convention to a Reformed view of faith. The majority of Lutherans hold to a third view of salvation and election that was taught by Phillip Melanchthon.


Arminians of note: John Wesley, Charles Finney, C. S. Lewis, Rick Warren, Dwight L. Moody, Billy Graham*
Calvinists of note: Francis Schaeffer, R.C. Sproul, Charles Spurgeon, John MacArthur, J.I. Packer, David Reid, Dana Smith, Lorrie Comeford
* Billy Graham is sympathetic to eternal security but not election

Both the Arminian and Calvinist perspectives are clear in their declarations that God’s grace is freely given and cannot be earned.
Eph 2:7-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-
Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Cor 9:15
15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

But Jesus’ own words declared that the acceptance of the gift is costly. He gives a discourse in Luke 14 that speaks to Mike’s question regarding salt and others regarding the cost in receiving His gift and following Him in faith.

Luke 14:25-35
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he cannot be my disciple. 27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29 For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30 saying, `This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'

31 "Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

34 "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Today, many look for the comfortable “just accept Jesus as Savior” faith. His Lordship will come by and by. But even the thief on the cross served His Lord by a brief but poignant witness to the other thief. It costs to follow Jesus. It is not just a simple “I believe”. It is “I will keep on believing by faith.” Not by works lest we boast.

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:40-43

Whether it’s the thief who was within minutes of dying or a young child of eleven years of age who “accepts Christ”, it is the whole of life from that point onward that is involved with the decision to “follow me”. Following Christ does not mean separating the moment of Salvation and Lordship of Christ, but to praise Him for His salvation and submit to him for the duration of one’s life. This is a continuing act of faith. Salvation costs us nothing and everything! At this point the Calvinist would say that God’s grace and the power of His Holy Spirit will imbue the one who genuinely accepts Christ as Savior with his transformative power and the Arminian would not disagree. Indeed, we are justified at the point of salvation and it is our faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit that sanctifies us on our journey. In God’s Word it is stated three times in the NT that “the just shall live by faith”. But please note that in the book of Hebrews the writer through the unction of the Holy Spirit carries it one step further:

Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 "For yet a little while,
and He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

This is one of the great number of “if” Scriptures. A simple entry of this word in the concordance of your Bible software will pull up 647 entries in the NIV version of the NT alone. Many of these “ifs” are of a nature similar to the one in the verse just cited. The word “if” is indicative of a cause and effect type of statement; action and a reaction. In the context of this discussion the writers of the New Testament knew that we as believers, as followers, as those abiding in Christ can do so only “if” . . . . !
This brings us to “the” question itself. Can I lose my salvation? The Calvinist would say that if a person draws back, falls away, backslides, apostatizes, turns away, cast away, etc. that he/she was never saved in the first place. But draw back, fall away, backslide apostasize, turn away, cast away from what to what?

As I stated at the outset, we must not allow this discussion to fracture our fellowship or inflict harm on those who are still young in the faith and are not ready for the meat of God’s Word. On the other hand, the question of the validity of the popular doctrine of “unconditional security” is of more than academic interest and small group discussion. We cannot lightly accept or reject a doctrine of this magnitude. We must ask: what does the Scripture say? An example leading into this discussion is the word “believe” as it is used in Scripture. Certainly, probably the most oft quoted Scripture by Evangelicals, if not all of Christendom is John 3:16:

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (gr. present participle active -“keeps on believing”) in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Unfortunately, it would take a discourse or paper of volumes rather than pages to exegete every single passage of Scripture that applies to this discussion. I am not a Greek scholar. I have no Greek expertise whatsoever. Any commentary I make regarding any exegesis comes from others’ works, so in fact I am not exegeting anything of my own accord. It is up to the reader to take anything written here as the honest expression of my prayer, reading of Scripture, and other writers more knowledgeable than I with whom I agree and disagree. I will, where necessary, however, cite the exegetes of certain authors pertinent to the texts and the reader(s) will have to discern to his/her self the accuracy of the exegesis and respond accordingly. There will be those Scriptures that I exegete with limited knowledge to the best of my ability.

The Parable of the Sower or Soils (as many now label it) is one which lends itself to this discussion.

Luke 8:11-15
11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Verse 13 indicates it is possible to believe temporarily. What is meant by the word “believe” in this context? Does it mean having faith, or a believing which falls short of true saving faith? The Greek word for believe is pisteuo. As such it gives latitude. In the NT the word is used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e. a conviction, joyful trust, the Jesus is the Messiah. However it can also be used to a conviction that falls short of true saving faith (e.g. John 2:23-25). However, in this context, pisteuosin is a “believing unto salvation: “. . . lest they should believe and be saved.” Those who “believe for a while” are depicted by Jesus as making a sincere beginning in the life of faith. Their believing, while it continued, was actual saving faith.

Furthermore, the Lord’s parable acknowledges those who “produce a crop by persevering” are those who hear the word and retain it in contrast to those who only believe for a while. The Greek for “for a while” is the crux of the whole parable. It is a warning by Jesus’ to his followers that those who receive the Word (Jesus made flesh) must “keep it” (gr. katecho – hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of). As a post-script to this example, Jesus declares in John 8:51:

51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps (tereo – retain and observe) my word, he will never see death

Also Luke 11:28:

28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

The context in these instances from the verses preceding is that faithfully keeping the Word (Jesus), once heard and received, is the way of continued deliverance and salvation.

Paul warns Timothy in I Timothy 4:1, 16:

4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Paul warns the Corinthian believers in I Cor. 15:1, 2

15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

James urges the brethren in James 1:21:

21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

John warns his dear children against apostasy and apostates in I John 2:24, 25

24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us-even eternal life.

Note the word “if” throughout these portions of Scripture. Many have said it is the biggest word in the English language. Perhaps it is also one of the most significant in Theology. Also note that in each instance the writers are speaking to those who are in Christ (brothers, Timothy, children, et al.).

It is the testimony of our Savior and the NT writers that an initial reception of the Word of the Gospel must be followed by faithful retention if men are to continue in the saving grace of Christ and the eternal life of God.[1]
Another parable for discussion is the Parable of the Lord and His Steward – Luke 12:42-46)

42 The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, `My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Some have argued that the unfaithful steward of vv 45, 46 was never a true disciple, but a hypocrite from the beginning. The Lord’s sudden appearance exposes his hypocrisy. However, there are two false assumptions:
That there are two different stewards in view in the parable, one of whom proves faithful, and the other unfaithful. But Jesus is not speaking of two stewards but of one (ho doulos ekeinos).
That the Lord was unaware of the true character of his steward at the time of his appointment, i.e. He was deceived by his hypocrisy. Many pretend to be servants of Christ who do not know and follow Him as Savior and Lord, but Christ Himself cannot personally entrust responsibilities in His Holy service to men who are not His. “The Lord knoweth them that are His (II Tim. 2:19)

The correct analysis of the parable would be:
Question: Who is the faithful and wise manager whom the Lord will reward at his coming?
Answer: That servant whom his Lord finds him so doing when He comes.
Reward: He will make him ruler over all his possessions.
Peril: That servant may grow careless and unfaithful during the Lord’s absence
Penalty: The Lord may come unexpectedly and set him back with the unbelievers.

This parable is a corroboration of Hebrews 10:38, 39 alluded to earlier in this discussion.

38 But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

Paul himself feared the possibility of finding himself rejected if he became careless like this manager and self-indulgent toward sin in I Cor. 9:27:

27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Many have commented that Paul was concerned that he might fail to receive the reward for further service as an apostle and they refer to the earlier portions of chapter 9. However, the context must be taken in its whole from 9:23-10:14. Paul’s fear was the possibility of losing, not opportunities/rewards for service, but salvation of his own soul, i.e. “the prize.”

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 1 Cor 10:12-13

The prize in Moses’ time, Paul’s time and today is “the promised land” i.e. eternal salvation. God will provide a way, ultimately the cross of Jesus Christ, but we must persevere through ongoing faith in Jesus Christ. It is when we think, through the false security of eternal security and are standing firm that we will fall. If we continue to fall with no corrective action, i.e. repentance for ongoing and pervasive sin, even as believers, we will drift into the great wasteland of apostasy and ultimate loss of salvation. Is this Christ’s desire? No.

Matt 18:12-14
12 "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.

But in His great love for us He will not force us to come to faith and/or return to faith. He is not willing for us to perish, but he has given us the grace to choose not only to the point of justification, but to choose after justification. All of the Scriptures listed thus far and many to follow point to this truth. Why? Because the Lord loves us and tells us repeatedly in His Word that we are a stubborn people who are constantly capable, because of our misuse of free will to turn away. And he repeatedly tells us what the consequences of turning away will be. Notice, in the verse above, once again the word “if” is used. “If he finds it”. Why would not the sovereign Lord not be able to find a lost sheep? Indeed he could. But the sheep must respond to His calling. If the sheep is content in his lostness to grace until he no longer recognizes his masters voice, he will indeed be lost forever.

Another section for discussion is the words of Jesus on the night of his betrayal, John 15:1-6

15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

As a prelude and foundation to discussion of these verses, consider John 6:56, 57

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

God, the Father, is the source of life and Jesus lives because of the Father. When we “eat of him” we are sustained by Him as He is by the Father. As he remains in us, we are sustained by Him. But we must remain in fellowship and communion with Him for Him to remain in us. “Abide in me and I will abide in you.” It is more than a once-for-all appropriation, the act of a moment.

There are three important truths to convey regarding John 15:1-6.

1.The mutual indwelling of the disciples and the Savior is dependent on the response of the disciples. The sequence verse four is “Remain in me” (first) “and (then) I will remain in you.” Arguments have been presented that the choice in verse 16 is with respect to salvation and that Jesus chooses first. But the context here is in terms of a selection of the Apostolate. It is not about salvation.
2.The consequences of continuing to remain in Christ are His continued indwelling and a resultant fruitfulness of the disciple. He is the vine, the branches will bear fruit if they stay in the vine and allow the life giving sap (the Holy Spirit) to flow in through every fiber of the branch and bear fresh fruit.
3. Failure to remain in Christ results in fruitlessness. If a branch ceases to remain in the vine and not allow the sap (Holy Spirit) to flow, it will not only cease to bear fruit, it will wither to the point that it must be cut off and burned. It is not only useless in and of itself; it is not fit for the vine to flourish.

Once again, those of the Calvinist tradition will indicate that the “branches . . . in Me” that Jesus spoke of were not true believers. They would indicate that it would be “professing members of the Church”, but not necessarily believers in fact. To truly substantiate this kind of view, however, Jesus would have to refer to the Church as the vine and not Himself.

Please note once again the crucial “if” in this very important and foundational portion of Scripture to the discussion of one’s being able to lose one’s salvation. Note also that as is typical with a branch that loses it’s efficacy through its not remaining in the vine, its loss of fruitfulness is not usually immediate but gradual. So too is the life of one who gradually wanders from the truth. It is usually a slow process of not partaking of the “bread and wine”, of being in regular relationship with Christ, his Body (the Church) and His Word (the Scripture) and of working for his Kingdom (serving others in the name of Christ). Gradually the leaves become less and less, and their falling earlier and earlier each season, and the fruit less in quantity and less in quality until finally the branch bears nothing at all and is removed or simply falls to the ground and is burned.

But what of the Scriptures upon which those who are proponents of eternal security rest their claims? Again, I am not questioning the sincerity and faith of those who hold this position. I respect the depth of faith, knowledge of God’s Word and their service for His Kingdom. I look forward to the day when all we who see through a glass darkly will have all made clear. Nevertheless, I believe the propensity of Scripture and the content therein points to a theology other than “eternal security” and that those Scriptures used by those who support this interpretation are honestly misguided.

First, probably one of the most commonly quoted Scriptures of Calvinists in support of their position on eternal security – John 10:28, 29:

28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Again, context is important and it is important that verse 27 be taken into account as well:

John 10:27
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

As I stated earlier in a somewhat different contextual argument, this Scripture does not convey simply the work of Christ and his care as sufficient for securing our ongoing salvation. There is a response that is incumbent upon the believers. The promise of Christ to safeguard His followers does not relieve them of the necessity of following Him. There have been, are and will be those who were listening to His voice and following Him. As long as they were doing so, no one could distract them and take them out of Christ the Shepherd’s hand. However, if they stop listening and gradually tune out the voice of the Lord and stray, they are no longer His sheep. They are once again lost. Something may occur to challenge them to once again listen, but God’s Word also tells us that:

Luke 9:62
62 Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

And

Heb 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Another powerful Scripture that those who hold to eternal security use to support their position is John 5:24:

John 5:24
24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

The emphasis of the supporters on this verse as one of unconditional eternal security is on the words “has eternal life”. However, emphasis must be put on the words “hears my words and believes.” These words are not the act of a moment, but similar to John 3:16 are in the present participle active. The durable quality of the present participles akouon and pisteuon could be translated “Truly I say to you, He who is hearing my word and is believing Him who sent me, has eternal life and will not receive judgment but has passed out of death and into life.”

The point of Jesus’ statement is that, on the basis of their present faith, all who hear and believed are delivered from present condemnation occasioned by unbelief and stand passed out of spiritual death into life. Jesus is not presenting a privileged position which, once attained, is forever irrevocable. On the contrary His words depict a privileged position governed by our habitually hearing and believing. They are commensurate with our ongoing and growing faith in Him.

There is no warrant in the NT for that strange at-ease-in Zion definition of perseverance which assures Christians that perseverance is inevitable and relieves them of the necessity of deliberately persevering in faith, encouraging them to place confidence in some past act or experience. [2]

Peter declares – I Pet.1:5, 8, and 9:

5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

John declares in I John 2:24, 25

24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us-even eternal life.

And John in his gospel – John 8:51

51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

And the great apostle Paul in II Tim. 3:13-15

13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

And I Cor. 15:1, 2

1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

And Col. 1:21-23

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

An oft quoted Scripture in support of ‘eternal security’ is Philippians 1:6

6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Again a broader contextual inspection is needed, starting with verse 7. It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me.

Paul is expressing his confidence in the faithful Philippians because they were standing fast with him in the defense of the Gospel in the face of ongoing persecution. Their potential resistance to grace as a human possibility is not excluded; but Paul does not fear this on the part of the Philippian converts at this point as he had in the case of the Galatians (see Gal. 1:6,3:3).(Meyer). Paul had every reason to believe that God’s gracious work in them would continue until the day of Christ.[3]

ELECTION

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8-9


None of us doubts that God has inherent freedom as sovereign Creator to act without becoming accountable to his creatures. But this must not be construed to mean that God is not governed by moral principles which also are his creation.

Tied closely to the theology of eternal security is the Calvinist position that God has ordained that from the beginning of time God has “elected” that some of his creation made in his image are elected to salvation and some are not; that there are individual men and women whom God has elected as part of his divine plan to be assured of their eternal security/salvation and some to eternal insecurity/perdition. This election is not one of corporate election of his Church to be the body of Christ (as Arminians believe), but the election of specific individuals from the sea of humanity to enjoy the blessings of being in His presence for all eternity.

The basis for the Reformed or Calvinist doctrine in this regard is Paul’s epistle to the Romans, chapters 9-11.

For expediency’s and space’s sake, I will not copy all three chapters of Paul’s epistle. But I think it important to make a distinction regarding what many with the Arminian perspective believe to be Paul’s actual intent given the circumstances of his day with regard to the nation of Israel and how it should apply to the Church today.

Please read chapters 9-11 and then consider this summary by Robert Shank from “Life in the Son” in terms of the perspective of corporate versus individual election.

“Many seem to have approached Rom. 9-11 with the assumption that Paul’s purpose in writing that portion of his letter to the Romans was to expound the theological doctrine of the sovereignty of God. Not so. His purpose was to answer an urgent question which disturbed Jewish believers everywhere, of whom doubtless there were many at Rome.

In the days of the Apostles, the Gospel of Christ was truly “to the Jew first.” Wherever the Apostles went, it was customary for them to enter the synagogues and preach the Gospel first to the Jews of the community. Many Jews became believers, and assemblies which were predominantly Gentile usually had strong nuclei of Jewish converts. This was the situation at Rome. Writing to believers at Rome, Paul addresses them sometimes as Gentiles (1:13-15; 11:13ff.) and sometimes as Jews (2:17ff; 4:1ff; 7:1ff).

Having reached a glorious climax in his consideration of the cardinal questions of sin, and of salvation, justification, and righteousness by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, Paul turns to a consideration of the present circumstance of Israel—a question of utmost concern for Jewish believers. They had accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah and now anticipated the fulfillment of the Messianic promises concerning Israel—perhaps soon (Acts 1:6, 7; 3:19-26). But grounds for their hope seemed to be fading. Why the delay? Had Israel been cast away? Were glorious promises of God to the fathers to be ignored? More and More, it seemed either that the promises must fall, or that Jesus was not really the promised Messiah. The question was of more than academic concern. Doubts arising from incomplete understanding and nourished by disappointment threatened to destroy the faith of many. It was a vexing question among Jewish believers everywhere, and on which required a firm and positive answer. Paul doubtless had often met the question elsewhere, and he now writes at length to answer it for Jewish converts at Rome. Let us consider a brief analysis of his answer:
(9:6-13) God’s word has not been proved ineffective. There is an “Israel” within Israel—even as, historically, only the descendents of Isaac and Jacob were reckoned as the children of the covenant-promise, to the exclusion of all other descendants of Abraham.
(9:14-31) God is sovereign and therefore has the right to do as He pleases with individuals and nations. He is free to bestow favors on some, and to deny them to others, without becoming answerable to any creature. This absolute sovereignty extends to Isaac and Ishmael (vv7-9), to Jacob and Esau (vv10-13), to Moses (vv. 15-16), to Pharaoh (v. 17), to all other individual men (vv. 18-24), and, collectively, to Israel and the Gentiles (vv. 25-31). God as sovereign has an absolute right to make of the common lump of humanity some vessels to honor, and others to dishonor; some for wrath and destruction, and others for mercy and glory. He has an absolute right to say of Israel, “not my people.” It is not for men to call God into question. (To do so is not only presumptuous; it is positively dangerous, since such an attitude is incompatible with faith. Hence the sharpness and vigor of Paul’s reply to presumed objectors.)
(9:30-10:21) Israel’s failure to “arrive,” however, is not at all due to some absolute unconditional decree arising arbitrarily from the fact of the sovereignty of God, without respect to anything in men. The cause of Israel’s present frustration is their own unbelief and disobedience. They have only themselves to blame. God continues to stretch forth His hands toward them, but in vain.
(11:1-6) Actually, despite the allegations of some, God has not cast away His people. Even though Israel, nationally, is “not my People,” God still has His remnant in Israel-after-the-flesh. Paul, himself, is one among them (11:1). As in past generations, God has His “Israel” within Israel. Jewish believers in Christ constitute His present remnant in Israel and are of the election, not of works, but of grace.
(11:7-10) The present hardening of Israel, nationally—far from being the consequence of an arbitrary act of God in casting them off (11:1,2) – is the consequence of their own failure to obtain the righteousness which they sought. The failure (as Paul has affirmed, 9:31-10:21) stemmed from the fact that they sought righteousness by their own works, rather than by faith, thus stumbling over Christ, whom they found an offence. Their stumbling and consequent hardening were foretold by Isaiah and David (as well as others).
(11:11, 12,15) God is able to turn Israel’s present lapse to good account, both for the immediate proclamation of salvation among the Gentiles, and for the ultimate recovery of Israel herself. Having accomplished good through their lapse, God will multiply blessing for all nations through the recovery and restoration of Israel.
(11:13-24) During the present lapse of Israel, nationally, the salvation of individuals, both Jews and Gentiles (10:12, 13) remains a separate and distinct consideration, entirely independent of the question of the circumstance of Israel, nationally. It is evident from vv. 14, 23, 24 that the “hardening” of “the rest” (as distinguished from “the election,” v.7) is not of the consequence of an arbitrary decree of unconditional reprobation; it is not absolute, but only relative.
(11:25-27) The recovery and restoration of Israel, nationally is certain in the purpose of God. They will again become “my people” (9:25, 26).
(11:28,29) Even in the present era of national unbelief, while “enemies concerning the gospel,” Israel-after-the-flesh is still beloved for the fathers’ sake, and God’s promises to the fathers will yet be honored and fulfilled.
(11:30-31) God’s constant sincere purpose is to have mercy on all, both Jews and Gentiles, and includes any and all individual men, as they believe (10:12,13; 1:20-24).

Many have failed to recognize that Paul’s consideration in Rom. 9:6-29 is the question of the circumstance of Israel, rather than the personal salvation of individual men., and that his argument serves only to affirm that God, as a sovereign Creator, favors as He chooses without becoming answerable to men—a truth which Paul earnestly desired to establish in the minds of Jewish Christians who were profoundly disturbed over the question of the circumstance of Israel and in danger of denying the wisdom and righteousness of God. Paul asserts only the inherent freedom of God, as a sovereign Creator, to act without becoming accountable to His creatures. But this must not be construed to mean that God is not governed by moral principles within His own hold character and that He is at liberty to be arbitrary or capricious. God is governed by His actions, not by the judgment of His creatures, but by the more integrity of His own Person. Those who have assumed that Rom. 9:6-29 affirms that God is merely arbitrary in His dealings with men, including the unconditional choice of some to salvation and the arbitrary consignment of others to perdition, have misconstrued the passage. They have also ignored much that follows in Rom. 9-11 and the consistent testimony of the Holy Scriptures, including categorical assertions that God will have all men to be saved and does not will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Liddon comments: “Throughout this section (9:6-29) no attempt is made by the Apostle to harmonize the absolute Freedom and Omnipotence of God with man’s self-determination and responsibility. For the moment, the former truth is stated with such imperious force that the latter appears to be quite lost sight of: and the necessity for this ‘one-sidedness’ of statement lay in the presumption entertained by the Jews, that in virtue of their theocratic position God must be gracious to them. Without attempting to determine the relation of interdependence which exists between Divine and Human freedom, (secured by the truth that the former is ruled by God’s essential Sanctity and is consequently conditioned by moral facts on the side of man, Saint Paul passes on to consider the other side of the phenomenon before him, viz. the responsibility of the Jews themselves for their failure to attain the righteousness of God.[4]

The Bible affirms both the sovereignty of God and the freedom of human will. Many have insisted that the two truths, as revealed in the Scriptures, cannot be reconciled. But the irreconcilability which they have insisted upon exists, not between the two truths as revealed in Scripture, but between the Bible’s categorical assertions the freedom and responsibility of men and the unwarranted conclusions which many have drawn from certain passages in which the human factor simply is not affirmed—conclusions which are but groundless assumptions.

The sovereign God who is free to order all things as He pleases, has declared that He is pleased, by the foolishness of preaching, to save them that believe (I Cor. 1:21); that He is pleased with the faith of men who diligently seek Him (Heb. 11:6); and that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezek. 33:11; 18: 20-32), but wills to have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (I Tim. 2:4), not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (II Pet. 3:9). [5]

Finally, I have been asked: “Do you know of anyone who claimed faith in Jesus Christ, was baptized, lived according to his Word, bore fruit for His Kingdom and walked away from the faith.”

My answer is this: I cannot categorically judge any person’s heart in terms of his/her salvation. The matter is ultimately between that person and the Lord. However, the Scripture states clearly:

17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Matt 7:17-20

To be textually accurate, Jesus is speaking here about false prophets, but the application applies to all who claim one thing and act another way and also he makes clear that good will beget good and bad beget bad. Can this not apply to all of us?

In any event I have been a born again believer and follower of Jesus Christ for 37 years. I have worked, worshipped and served with many who claimed Life in the Son. I have seen many who have prayed, been baptized, sacrificially given to the Lord and others, preached, sung and lived and witnessed for Christ. I have seen many of these same individuals slowly but surely walk away from the church and I have never again heard a confession from their lips that Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord. Are they saved? Were they saved in the first place? Ultimately, only the Lord knows for sure, and I am not their judge. But what am I to conclude? How many warnings does the Lord give us in his Word? They are almost too numerous to count.

“But”, claim those who propose ‘eternal security’, “you are returning to a works based legalistic religion. It is purely by God’s grace alone that salvation comes. To persevere through a working of your own faith is a works based religion. Jesus took all of that away by means of His atonement. God has been calling us all along. It is His work, not ours that saves us.” There is no question that we cannot save ourselves. Christ died once for all and it is He that has continued through history to reconcile himself to us, ultimately through the sacrifice of God’s only begotten Son. But He calls and we respond freely. He does not force us to respond. We of all creation were given the free will to choose. To be created otherwise is to make us as other creatures or automatons. God is love and there is no greater love than a love that allows us to choose.

The Prodigal Son is arguably one of the most, if not the most, loved stories related by Christ.

12 The younger one said to his father, `Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13 "Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 "When he came to his senses, he said, `How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20 So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 "The son said to him, `Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
22 "But the father said to his servants, `Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' Luke 15:12-24

Most of us know the story well. What is remarkable to me is the restraint of the father. It is clear from the outset that the son is in relationship with his father. When he goes to him to ask for his inheritance he calls him “father” out of respect and recognition of his place. We do not know what has transpired prior to this story in their relationship, but at a minimum it is clear that the father loves the son to the extent that later he grants his son’s request and lets him go freely. Up until that time the son was “safe” in his father’s house. He was provided for and although, again, it is not mentioned in the Scripture, it might be inferred that at least for a season, perhaps as a child, the son loved his father. We trust it was a reciprocal relationship. However, as the boy matured, other voices beckoned him and he left the relationship. The question must be asked, was he saved while in his father’s household? Yes. Upon his leaving, was he saved? Less and less until ultimately, as his father exclaimed, “this son of mine was dead”. His son made a choice. He recognized his sin and humbly returned to his father. When he does, there is great rejoicing and note verse 24a: “For this son of mine was dead and is alive again. . .” ALIVE AGAIN!

This father loved his son enough to allow him to leave. He could have forced his men to bind him and keep him against his will, but that would not have been love. His son had decided to leave the relationship and he did so. He could well have died in squalor never to be in relationship again. But, his free will and his choice and the love that the father had shown previously was enough. He repented, he returned.

Many are in relationship with the Lord, leave and never return. Many are in relationship, leave and return.

Taking the position that one may lose one’s salvation is not that of one who is doom and gloom and one who believes that the Lord is somehow compromised. To the contrary, this is a position that praises the Lord for his wonderful grace and for such love that he does not arbitrarily elect certain individuals for his purposes and guarantees their salvation therein, but He, out of grace and love, gives us, his most special creation, the freedom to choose to respond to his call to come, receive the gift of salvation and by faith open it daily. Among his many gifts is His Word that declares this truth and out of compassion for our weakness warns us multiple times not to stray from our faith walk with Him.

A wonderful warning and then benediction is this final Scripture verse from the great Apostle Peter:

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. 2 Peter 3:17-18














Rom 8:1-4
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
[1] Robert Shank. Life in the Son. (MO: Bethany House Publishers, 1989), p. 34
[2] ibid. p.44
[3] ibid. p. 70
[4] H.P. Liddon, Explanatory Analysis of St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, p. 174.
[5] Shank, Life in the Son, pp. 340-344.

Ed Bolton

Numbers 5:11-31, What about the guy?

Question:
In Numbers 5:11-31, a ceremony is described to discover whether a woman is guilty of adultry. Why is this ceremony only to be conducted with a woman? Why doesn't it say "if a man or a woman...." We understand that times were different then, but God is just, so why would women be the only ones subjected to this kind of scrutiny?

Response:
The question raised is an excellent one and on the face of it presents quite a challenge for us in a culture and society that would perceive of this procedure lacking in justice. Some context is necessary from the outset. This is one of the Books of Moses. The Israelites are only into their second year in the desert after escaping from Egypt. Picture the responsibility of Moses and the leaders trying to manage upwards of two million Jews in the desert. There needed to be an organizing of tribes and clans, an army, service for the “tent of meeting” and the rituals and liturgies therein. With so much interaction among the peoples, structure and laws to maintain civil order and more importantly purity in the face of sin and idolatry had to be maintained to sustain harmony and faith within the people.

It is to the purity issue that this section of Scripture speaks. Various commentators allude to this portion of Numbers as “The Test for an Unfaithful Wife”, or “The Law of Jealousy”, etc. Chapter 5: 5-10 makes it clear that culpability for sin applies to men and women and there are consequences for same. Moses then cites perhaps the most egregious area of sin in terms of husbands and wives, i.e. adultery. On the face of it, it seems quite unjust that the woman is the only one to be held to account and from our perspective it is true. But consider the times, conditions, and patriarchal nature of society at that point. The NIV Bible Commentary has a good perspective:

On the one hand, the husband may shame his wife publicly and force her to a rigorous demeaning religious trial merely on the (unfounded) suspicion of marital unfaithfulness. She may have presented no evidence whatsoever. Further, there is no mention of the guilt, trial, and judgment of the man that this woman is supposedly involved with—all guilt, shame, trial and judgment rest on her shoulders.
On the other hand, there is limitation on the husband—a protection of the wife from his abusive hand. Were there not such a provision in a male-dominant culture, an angry, suspicious husband might strike out against his wife without any sure reason, harm her physically and mentally and even take her life. But God reaches out through Moses and has a means of escape for a woman under suspicion of unfaithfulness. The trial she is taken to is not a kangaroo court; it is in the precincts of the tabernacle, under the jurisdiction of the priests, in concert with a solemn sacrifice—she places herself in the hand of the Lord.

(Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary – An Abridgement of The Expositor’s Bible Commentary;Barker and Kohlenberger; Volume I, Old Testament, page 186)

This is but one step in a progression of steps proceeding up through Jesus and Paul wherein women in the Judeo-Christian tradition are placed in places of greater honor and more just and safer environs. Perfect? No. Better? Yes.

John 8:10-11
10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
(from The Holy Bible: New International Version. Copyright (c) 1973, 1978, 1984, by International Bible Society)

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(from The Holy Bible: New International Version. Copyright (c) 1973, 1978, 1984, by International Bible Society)

The ice age in the Bible

Ben (2 grade) asked..."Where is the ice age talked about in the Bible?"



We are answered...Well, Ben, that's a good question. The ice age is not mentioned in theBible, but that doesn't mean it didn't actually happen. To understand theice age in the Bible you have to begin by understanding that God doesn't seetime like humans do. We talk about seconds, minutes, hours and years, butGod is forever. I know, forever is a hard thing to understand. In fact theBible says in 1 Peter 3:8 that to God one day is just like a thousand years.Pretty amazing, isn't it? When you look for the ice age in the Bible youhave to go to Genesis chapter 1 and see that when the Bible talks about the"days" of creation it is not likely to be 24 hour days like we know a day.Remember, to God a thousand years is like a day. The word "days" likelyrefers to "a long period of time". The fancy expression for this is"progressive creation". This is the way smart men and women who believe inthe Bible and in Jesus often talk about the creation story in Genesis. Ittells us about God's "progressive creation". Since God likely created heavenand earth over "a long period of time" somewhere in that process an ice agehappened, before God created human beings. The ice age probably happenedbetween the sixth and seventh "days" of creation.



Pastor Reid